[00:00:00] Speaker A: Overall, it's more around creating a smart, sustainable urban structure, implement smart solutions, introduce efficient city management and all that comes together under a four M methodology which is mobilized, monitored, managed and measured.
This is KBCAt as a prime target.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: For ransomware campaigns, security and testing and performance risk and compliance. We can actually automate that, take that data and use it.
Joining me today is Pinita Romani, Director, Cyber Sector lead for government, healthcare and education from KPMG. And today we're discussing Cyber for Smart City. So thanks for joining Pinita, and welcome.
[00:00:49] Speaker A: Thanks, Carissa. It's a pleasure to speak with you on a Friday evening. Looking forward to the sunny weekend in Sydney, but really happy and honored to be on this podcast with you.
[00:00:59] Speaker B: So I want to start with cyber for smart cities. Now, I actually haven't covered this topic at all from memory, over 200 plus interviews. So when we were talking about an angle and then you raised this and I thought that's an excellent one to talk about because, I mean, there's so many questions that I have. My mind's just bursting with all the questions, but we obviously don't have that much time to cover everything. So I want to keep this short and sharp, but maybe give a bit of a summary about smart cities and how does cyber sort of dovetail into it. Tell me everything that's on your mind.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: Sure, Carissa, and I think it's a topic which is close to my heart as well because of late I have worked on some of the engagements that have nuances around smart cities digital twin, and we are seeing a lot of these things around going on in terms of the next generation, AI and digital. But in a nutshell, I mean, what smart city means is it just represents a civil infrastructure which is augmented with a digital arm pretty much churning a large amount of data that can be utilized in a safe and a secure mechanism. And mainly for smartness, maturity, which currently some of the cities, or probably I would say 80% of the cities do not have as yet, only some of the highly developed nations and some of the nations around Middle east have been able to onboard to that amazing journey. And Sydney is not behind anymore because we are also moving on to one of the first smart cities, which Sydney is going to have by 2026. Overall, it's more around creating a smart, sustainable urban structure, implement smart solutions, introduce efficient city management and all that comes together under a four M methodology which is mobilized, monitored, managed and measured. So when you look at probably examples like a state of art infrastructure around green spaces, roads and buildings, utilities like water, electricity, and gas. All this, when combined together into a digital construct, forms a smart city where everything is so well connected and monitored and managed that human intervention reduces to nil, and then it's taken over by a generative AI kind of a mechanism. While it just sounds very fascinating, implementing and actually mobilizing this entire smart city initiative is a massive one, and it does require huge amount of collaboration across a number of siloed entities which we currently see exist, and a number of stakeholders that need to be managed in this entire construct. But also, I think, in terms of the citizens and residents of the city do need to imbibe to a concept of living in a smart city, which it would mainly around increase the parameters of livability during its complete life cycle. So I think, yeah, that was a bit about a gist around what really smart city is.
[00:04:03] Speaker B: Okay, so a couple of things in there that I want to press on a little bit more. Can you repeat the four M's again?
[00:04:08] Speaker A: So, mobilize, monitored, managed and measured.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: Okay, so couple of things. You said reduce human intervention. So when you say human intervention, give me an example.
[00:04:19] Speaker A: So, for example, we have service, New South Wales, and I'm giving an example because that's very local and something which is very relevant to our day to day life. Now, things like e governance and citizen Services currently have a lot of human intervention and interaction and dependencies. Now, I'm not saying that that would go obsolete, but I'm saying that citizen engagement and how public information and grievance management is typically handled would become more digitized and would become more smarter in terms of accessibility for us as residents. So in terms of electronic service delivery. Now, these are some things which are still in an ideation stage, I would say. And these are something which the cities are even exploring. Should we even go to a route where we have no humans around and it is just a pretty much digital, or a robot chatting with the residents? And how would the empathy factor be impacted by that? But certainly things like surveillance, monitoring and crime control, I feel should be at the first to get onboarded as part of a concept around smart cities. And this is just one example. We can see a number of other examples like smart healthcare, where patient health management and health services, and the data behind the health disease surveillance, all that gets translated back into a system which is heavily automated. And pattern recognition can then drive some very valuable results, which currently, I think globally, the entire health sector is struggling with.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: Got you. Okay, what about people who are commuting? It depends on where you live, but some people driving up to an hour, 2 hours. So will a lot of this type of stuff that's being implemented reduce some of the traffic problems as well?
[00:06:13] Speaker A: I think it won't reduce traffic time because I think that would be catered by some of the infrastructure and transformational projects which are underway. But certainly I think when there are some major delays or if there are some faults when we look at train derails due to a faulty signal, I think those kind of things can certainly be addressed by smart surveillance where we have networks across the CCTV signals and train and light rail monitoring boxes which can be pretty much quickly fixed without even a human engineer or a technician going on site to fix that, which pretty much causes delays these days across a number of cities. And I think because smart surveillance means you're actually capturing real time images with the facilities of wireless and wire connectivity. Now, if using pattern recognition and AI, all that gets automated and then pretty much we are making the system learn by itself and they are able to fix the defects without getting, I think without having too much of time being consumed in addressing or fixing some of these things. So not travel time, but then definitely the delays that are caused and who knows, because drones are the next big things. And I mean, certainly from New South Wales government perspective, there are some new policies and regimes being made across drones operations which are being used not just for personal uses but also for citizen safety and also for monitoring across regional regions where accessibility is an issue. So yeah, I think some of these things would definitely impact mobility and the way we travel in future.
[00:07:58] Speaker B: Okay, so great points. The reason why I'm bringing this up because I'm just using real life examples that people can relate to. Recently, like I was on the tram in Sydney and I had to catch ferry home and I missed the ferry because there was some technical default in the tram, but they wouldn't let us off immediately. Right. So we were sitting there for like, so like small things like that which do cause frustration from a consumer point of view, which does then as a result create congestion. Because then it's like, okay, we got to have these people trying to get a tram and then they can't, and then it sort of builds up and then the same thing with the trains if they're doing track work or there's something like that. So I'm just trying to connect the dots around the implementation of smart cities will reduce a lot of that congestion. Or if something does go wrong, perhaps they can fix it quickly, or perhaps it's like, okay, we've got to route people that are commuting home at 05:00 p.m. In the city to get home, and you don't have all this frustration, and I said the congestion side of it. So that's where my mind was going. Do you see that? The reduction of that, because of everything you just discussed already?
[00:09:10] Speaker A: And I think the critical thing will be the way the data will be analyzed and used going forward. So a lot of the data or the smart solutions are built around network connectivity, sensor network, smart cards, IoT devices. So all these devices and equipments are 24 cross seven, collecting a lot of data, both at a physical device level as well as at a network level, as well as at an intelligent, mobile level. So when we are enabling these technologies to reduce the cost of gathering information, and with that large volume of useful data, we get to a point where the cities, the councils, are really able to make sense of what the residents want, and that collective work is basically required to channelize and optimize the existing infrastructure and resources. So you would know where the heaviest traffic is flowing these days or in future. How would the trends affect the way the train network or the ferry network is operating? So using some of this information, which we currently do not have access to, would give us information to make more informed and wise decisions in future. So it's about making a city which is not smart as of now, but it would get smarter day by day. So I think this is where I'm trying to go. That smart city is not just a city at one point. It's a concept that will get evolved once you ingrain that smart brain cells into a city structure.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: Okay, so you made a comment before, make sense of what the residents want from that data that you're talking about. How do you then derive insights from what residents want in terms of their.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: Behavior pattern, in terms of the way they are consuming both city life as well as the way they are leading their personal life. Now, there's a very thin line or a gray area where if you are moving into an ethical or an unethical divide, because how much information is something which the cities should capture about the residents moving around versus the information that they really need for making some informed decisions around infrastructure and resources. So what residents would really want, or what residents would really desire going forward, is something which would come from a judgment being made upon collecting a number of data. And the data can be collected by a number of mediums around sensors, or the using of the drones, or cloud computing, mobile apps, intelligent mobile apps. So I think, and that's where I would say I'm pivoting to a different topic, which is having a regulatory compliance around how the smart city should operate in an ethical and in a way that's favorable to both governments. The decisions they are making versus the freedom and the liberty and the right to exist by a human living in that city.
[00:12:22] Speaker B: Okay, this is really good. Okay, I want to go back. You said before how much data that they will capture. So how much data are they capturing? What are we dealing with here? Are they going to say they're going to have a whole profile on what Carissa Breen does. She gets around. These are the things that she does or what are we dealing with?
[00:12:38] Speaker A: Absolutely. I mean, you are spot on, Karissa. I think this is the exact information which will be captured at the end of the day. Now, currently, the view that I have across some of the cities that have been developed are the NeoM in Middle east and then in Singapore, Hong Kong, and the one which we call as the Western Parkland City Authority, which is Bradfield City center, supposed to be one of the first smartest city in Sydney. We currently do not have a sample set of what they are trying to capture as yet, but certainly there is a preference to first have a lay of the land or a rulebook before the data starts getting captured and before the data starts getting utilized. In a way, it should be or it should not be. So that's where some of the compliance requirements or mandates need to be in place before moving into a full blown use of a smart city. And again, that's where I'm pivoting to a point of making a digital twin for a smart city before executing it in a live environment. When you replicate a smart city into a digital twin, you really get to know the use cases and scenarios that you would be replicating and the ones that you would be actually putting to use and making sure the guardrails and all the playbooks are complied by and there is no non compliance.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: So how do you think people are going to feel about that? Because people seem outraged, as it is about intel that governments have, et cetera. Do you have any sort of thoughts or opinions on that? I mean, there's no right or wrong answer. I'm just genuinely curious because what you say makes sense. But I speak to a lot of people in this space, as you know, but then also I do a lot of research and see what people are sort of saying out there. So do you think people are sort of going to get a little bit asked up by this or what do.
[00:14:37] Speaker A: You think they would definitely. And it is in this kind of an environment, the cities and councils should make sure that their cybersecurity or the privacy aspect of these controls is in place. Because I'll give you an example. There was an attack that happened in Atlanta municipal systems, I think sometime in 2017 and 2018. It was actually a ransomware attack on their city system, which exposed the data of their residents, including some of the data of the school kids as well. Now, they claimed to have a smart city concept, but then some of these things triggered a bit of angst and a rage among the residents. Now, ideally, it was the city's responsibility to make sure it's all safe and secure before putting it into a live, smart city environment. However, we all know that because the hackers are more sophisticated and they are one step ahead of us in thinking about how to perform such sophisticated hacks and attacks, you can't really do away with it. Now, instances like these would definitely trigger, because then there'll be questions around even the existence of a smart city, and why do we even need that? While we talk about growth and leaning towards future, there are some negotiables and some non negotiables and moving that direction as well. So at what cost is something which the cities have to really decide? And I think that's where, from my perspective as well, I'm not 100% in favor of a fully or maybe a full blown smart city concept where you are being tagged or you are being tracked on a daily basis, your movement, your consumer behavior, your buying behavior, or your weekend plans are being monitored, and then decisions are being made by the government on my behalf that where I would probably hang out next weekend. And these are some of the very basic examples which the governments would have access to going forward. So how do we make sure that it's both safe, secure, but also from a privacy lens, it's more, I think, in favor of the humanity that really wants to work towards a better future.
[00:16:56] Speaker B: But here's the thing, Perina, don't you think we've just gone too far? Not too far in the sense of the tech front, but more so the privacy side of things. I'll give example. So CBA, they 100% track people, their spending habits, their buying habits, because they use that to reverse market on. Oh, well, we think Carissa Breen is going to buy a car and she's going to do this. She shopped at these places. This is where she lives. All those types of things go into selling consumer products back to consumers because they've got that intel to be able to do that. So now if we're going up the chain, we're saying, well, we also know where Carissa Breen cruises around on the weekend and what she does. Don't you think, though, the whole privacy thing's gone out the window, though it is, yes.
[00:17:39] Speaker A: And I'm 100% on you with that, Carissa. It's not something which I personally like, because I do get advertisements similar like you on my purchasing behavior and things that I would have purchased in the past, predicting what I would purchase in the future. And that's not something which I'm okay with. However, I think as a community, if there is a bigger outrage, I would be then curious to see what's really the action plan. But I still don't see that outrage as much as we think we should be probably putting our foot forward for. I'm certainly in because we are taking it too far in terms of breach of privacy. And I think we are still mature adults. We do understand what's right and wrong, where the lines can be drawn. But I think, I feel it's very much damaging for the teens and for the kids who are out there who get sucked up in these patterns and behaviors and feel more engaged and involved with what's really happening outside in the world.
[00:18:43] Speaker B: So just say hypothetically, we go ahead, we implement the smart city in line with the 2026 vision, for example. People are outraged. They're not going to just reverse it. So it's like, oh, okay, well, you don't like the lights on, we'll turn them off. You can't really do that by that stage. So I guess there really isn't an option. And if people are outraged, which is very likely, it's too bad. I'm assuming it is.
[00:19:07] Speaker A: And I think that's where a digital twin is prepared. Before you actually implement a smart city, all permutation combinations are first applied on that digital twin. Then pros and Cons are weighed and outweighed in terms of what repercussions would that have or what implications would that mean to a city? Is there going to be an outside attack possible if certain scenario is implemented or not? And that's where the decision makers and the policymakers should be sitting on that table, making qualitative and quantitative decisions on behalf of every use case. And it's not just the responsibility of the city council, mayor or the team that's doing the work on ground. It's the responsible for every industry advocate or every key institution leader to sit on that table and make decisions on behalf of the entire country. There are going to be schools in that smart city area. There are going to be train networks. There's going to be water utility, water treatment plants. There's going to be a dam, there's going to be a bank, there's going to be a hospital. So I think each and every institute's responsibility to make sure that the entire ecosystem is made in a way that's sustainable. But it's also pro humanity, if I.
[00:20:28] Speaker B: May say so, you talk a lot about spatial services and digital twins. Now, maybe.
I kind of probably have already put the pieces together on what a digital twin is, but maybe just define those terms just so everyone's on the same page. That would be awesome.
[00:20:43] Speaker A: Sure. So spatial services and digital twin is a concept that was evolved when the entire concept of making a smart city, or probably as small as an IoT device started, which is Internet of Thing devices. Now, to replicate something that you see in your real life into a digital environment where you can probably play around with a lot of digital data and also with the use cases that you see on a day to day basis is actually called a digital twin. And then we use appliances. And then I might be going into a direction where I'll be speaking jargons, but just for the tech geeks who are listening to this podcast that we use cardar systems and PLC devices, and then IoT devices within that digital twin to replicate and see how things are actually operating when they go into a production or a live environment. A lot of cities use a digital twin to replicate scenarios like train networks and how a hospital or an ICO ward goes into an environment where they are into a cyber attack. But then how do they come out of it? Replicating scenarios like bank ATMs have stopped working, and then what's the way out after that? What are the nearest buildings in the vicinity that can be reached out to, or if there's a heritage building, like, for example, Sydney Harbor Bridge or Sydney Opera House, or any museums, which can be at risk or at threat. So replicating that entire city into a model that can be digitally played around with, and I've used this word before as well, pattern recognition is something which is applied when it comes to a concept of a digital twin. But then in my point of view, and this was the project which I have been working on as well, where we have used digital twin in explaining and making that into an experiential learning for a lot of staff and school kids and students as well, and that experiential learning comes from cybersecurity, where we replicate some of the cyber attacks in that digital twin. For example, there is an airport and there's a cyber attack that happens in the airport and the ATC Tower doesn't receive any signals for the flights to take off or land. You can actually visualize and see, look and feel that in the digital twin and that's where you really understand that. How grave and how deep could these cyberattacks mean in terms of our day to day lives?
[00:23:23] Speaker B: Wow, that was an exceptional explanation. Thank you. And I appreciate you being very thorough and very meticulous. Those little nuanced things that you've explained are really important. Okay. Oh my gosh. There's so many questions that I have. I want to go back a step. And you mentioned regulation and compliance. Is there something in place for this or is it still being worked through?
[00:23:45] Speaker A: I think it's still being worked through. And pardon my ignorance if there's anything already in place, but I haven't seen that still being published or out there. Certainly countries like Singapore, Middle East, Hong Kong do have a regulatory compliance around the use of smart city. But then I think for them as well, because this concept is just five or six years old, you wouldn't get that kind of data that would inform you around what more could happen. So I think it's a journey where everybody is learning on the fly. But then I think for Australia, it's very essential to just take the learnings from some of the global smart cities that are already in place and make sure we are able to protect and have some of the controls in place at a very early stage. So we are able to capture that maturity uplift pretty early in our lifecycle of building that smart city. But I think every industry would need to have a regulatory compliance around a smart city. For example, if there's power utility, which definitely every smart city would need a concept of a circular economy where we have power, utility, water, energy. So every sector needs to have a regulatory compliance around the use of those facilities within a smart city construct. Same with health industry, same goes with education and higher ed. Same would go with retail, same would go with transport sector and I think same would go with the airports. And I think it will be a good one to see because that's going to be one of the first 24 crore, seven airport for Australia, western Sydney Airport. And that's going to be very closely linked with Bratfield city Center. So I'm very curious to see how that spans out and very excited to get involved in some of those conversations, which we already are. But I think more the conversations evolve, more people come on the table, there are more ideas that get circulated, and more wise, we become as a community.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: Okay, so there's a couple of things that I'm curious to know now. So going back to. I hate going back to the example, but it's just the one that people relate to. Going back to the trains, delay on trains, people are outraged. And when you got all these people that can't get out of the city, puts pressure on buses and ubers and everything else in between. So are you saying implementing this will reduce a lot of that congestion? Because they'll be able to predict if something is down or there's a fault or there's a defect or something happens to either advise people in advance, because at the moment, I'm assuming it's pretty knee jerk reaction.
[00:26:25] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely.
I think this is one of the biggest boon which the transport industry would get after implementing this concept. But I'm not sure at what scale and at what pace this concept will get implemented.
[00:26:45] Speaker B: Okay. And then you mentioned befOre, sustainable. So talk me through. How does the implementation of a smart city increase sustainability from your point of view?
[00:26:55] Speaker A: Good question. Carissa, if I may say, I may not be the best person to answer this in all honesty. Not honesty, but then in its entirety, I am still trying to make myself believe into. The makers of Smart City claim it's going to be a sustainable concept, but it's too soon to say. I mean, they haven't published a report saying that it's sustainable.
[00:27:19] Speaker B: Well, that's the part that I'm interested in. Because if talent comes out and says, oh, it's sustainable, well, how? That's the part that I want to know exactly.
[00:27:26] Speaker A: I mean, they say that success in establishing a cybersecure smart city would require a number of its stakeholders to probably establish a sustainable value chain. Now, how the stakeholders are establishing a sustainable value chain is a question, because you'll see multiple service providers and third party suppliers getting embedded in the value chain. Now, it's very essential for these third parties to demonstrate capabilities in the value chain that can constantly grow. And it doesn't limit to just device manufacturers or infrastructure service providers or telco companies or data warehousing facilities to be all over the place within that city. I mean, it then just defeats the concept of making it sustainable. At the end of the day, they need to ensure that you're looking at the entire value chain and not just an individual component within the smart city, because this concept requires so many third parties and suppliers to come together. Because every supplier and third party in this environment has a niche and they are bringing their niche onto the table and then holding hands and making sure the city survives and sustains. It's a new concept for literally everybody in the region. And now security is only as strong as the weakest link. And how do you make sure that that weakest link is protected? And there's trust and confidence in the smart city. So as I said in the beginning of the answer to this question, I am still trying to get myself onto this concept of is smart city even sustainable or not? But I'm sure I'll be definitely proven wrong in the long run. But it's for everybody to see how that concept evolves and if it's even successful. Because I don't think every city is a smart city in the world, and I think that's for a reason. It's not that we don't have minds or power brains in the cities. We have all people in the world that have reached to the moon, and we surely have the capability and capacity to build smart cities in every country. But I think there's a reason why it's not pivotal and it's not happening at a very fast pace.
[00:29:51] Speaker B: Well, thanks for your honesty and sharing that. And look, I don't expect you to have all the answers. This is more so I'm just listening to you and then coming up with stuff in my mind. Okay, I want to talk about, let's go back to the example, sustainability. I mean, look, you're the expert, not me. I'm just asking the questions.
But when you were talking, I was thinking hypothetically going back to the train thing, and I'm sorry to keep bringing it up, but this is the example. Sure, if it's like, okay, we can increase, like we're not going to have all these delays and this and that and the track work. If we can increase that by implementing smart cities, maybe people would forego driving to work, which then reduces carbon footprint, for example. Do you think that's a thing? Maybe that's an angle.
[00:30:35] Speaker A: I haven't seen that implemented or I haven't seen that in action in the smart cities that have been developed in different parts of the world. And it's hard to probably say at this stage. It certainly requires a heavy boost in infrastructure and resources to make that happen. And it's also a mindset shift for a lot of population because I think from moving from not driving to work to using public transport every day is something which may not organically happen. There will be multiple factors that would contribute to that change. And I do not feel, and I do not think that smart cities is really trying to address that particular use case or problem, if I may say.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: Okay, so then I want to go forward then. You mentioned not every city is compatible with a smart city. So do you have an example of a city or a country that's just not compatible or just no way ever on this earth there'll ever be a smart city?
[00:31:41] Speaker A: I think it really depends on the decisions which the political leaders and the economists and the policymakers of the country think about making their city. Because I think every country has their own vision, mission and values. There are countries that are struggling with some basic needs for their citizens, and certainly I don't think for them, making a smart city would be ever in their agenda for next 25 to 30 years. But certainly for a country like Australia where we are very privileged and we have the right kind of resources and skills to get onboarded onto that journey, certainly we are investing into making sure we get one of our first smart city model in place.
[00:32:23] Speaker B: So from my understanding, we're progressing towards making first smart city by 2026.
So are we still at this digital twin stage or what's the stage we're at, if you wouldn't mind walking us through getting to that goal? Or what does this look like?
[00:32:43] Speaker A: So I think the plan is still on, and I'm sure everybody who's reading the podcast and for everybody's information, this information is actually also available and readily updated on New South Wales Government website as well. And while the plan is still on, it is still aspirational because a lot of things on ground need to be established. For example, identifying who the third parties and vendors will be that will be coming together in that smart city. Will they be getting the right kind of licenses and permit to operate, and in what capacity? Again, coming back to a point of will they be able to comply by all the ISO standards, regulations and policies that will be laid out for them to operate in that stipulated environment? And then, of course, when the four M's that I mentioned in my initial opening conversation, it needs to be taken into account that how will it be managed, measured and monitored? It is already being mobilized, I can say. But then in terms of ongoing monitoring, management and how do we measure it is something that's still in question and it's still work in progress. But I do know that there's heavy investment and focus which is going on in that direction. And certainly people like you and me would be able to see some of the outcomes or the output of this vision coming in front of our eyes pretty soon. However, because I'm not actually the delegated authority to speak on behalf of Bradfield City center or Western Parkland City Authority, I would probably refrain from commenting on any of the timeline shifts which they might have planned, but certainly I think it's one of the biggest projects everybody is eyeing for.
[00:34:34] Speaker B: So I want to now flip the interview or this interview on its head because this is a Cyber podcast. So now I'm curious to know all these things are saying connected this and that data on this Da da da da with that poses risk, threat, landscape changes, cyber issues arise. So talk to me about your thoughts on that front as we traverse towards this goal on 2026 of having the first Smart city in Australia.
[00:35:00] Speaker A: Well, I mean, it's a huge topic, and thanks, Carissa, for bringing this up, because I think the threat landscape increases. And it's not just about threat landscape. I think in my opinion, it is also about the reputation of a country. So the hackers may not be just hacking, because the intent of the hackers may not be to get some kind of a ransom out of that cyberattack. It would definitely be just to tarnish the image of that particular city country, and the cyberattacks would be way more sophisticated and something that we wouldn't have ever seen because the landscape is completely new. So, I mean, the first and foremost reason some of these attacks would happen, or the key factors would be inadequate security governance structures. And for such a large smart city initiative, ensuring the stakeholder commitments to cybersecurity requirements is tough. Now, both of us understand, and both of us are big advocates in the industry for cybersecurity, but we do know that cybersecurity is still something like a one line in a budget sheet or a business case, or even in a boardroom discussion, it would still be something which is not in limelight. So how to make the stakeholders committed to a cybersecurity requirement in such a large construct where there are multiple parties involved will be one of the biggest challenge. And then, of course, I think inadequate security requirement plannings and implementation of the technology and network because there's so much of network that can be exploited and there's so much of design vulnerabilities that can be exploited. And of course, the increased attack surface doesn't make it easier as well. In terms of what I call as crown dwells, which we use on a daily basis with some of our clients as well. I think lack of identification of crown drills and sensitive personal data within a smart city would be something that will be very crucial. And just security monitoring and to cover all the smart devices and use cases would be again, a very big challenge. And then what we call as the incident response capabilities, which I think very big organizations have been suffering from as well.
It is quite inadequate to detect and respond to cyberattacks and minimize their potential impact when it comes to a large scale smart city implementation.
[00:37:31] Speaker B: Wow. Okay. There's a lot of stuff there which makes sense.
Look, all of that makes so much sense, and thank you for sharing that. Again, you're very detailed in your responses and I really appreciate that. One thing is though, people are already stressed out as it is now we're introducing this whole new thing that doesn't have a lot of data points. Do you think from a security perspective, people feel stressed about what's happening right now with the smart city thing? All this other stuff going on potentially could lead into more physical security threats or issues or problems. What could happen if something goes wrong? But I kind of understand around we need to traverse into a smart city and we need to evolve as a civilization, but then the other side of it is like, oh, but that potentially could be a risk. Do you think people are afraid of what's happening?
[00:38:23] Speaker A: I think while we know people are afraid what's happening, it's not stopping us from moving forward because we have been able to counterattack a number of things in the past and we have always seen the light at the end of the tunnel where we have been successful and come out with flying colors. And I think that's just human nature. Because of which, while this all feels.
[00:38:47] Speaker B: So.
[00:38:50] Speaker A: Overwhelmingly tired, but still, people move to a next stage in the lifecycle to explore and increase the attack surface just to see what's next in terms of the challenges that they will be faced with. And I think that in itself helps us evolve as a community and for cybersecurity. As a community, we have seen a number of evolving threat landscape and we have been agile enough and proactive enough to prepare and combat some of those attacks and establish an effective mechanism for protection within the infrastructure or the networks or within our personal space. So while these things are completely new on the table, there is enough historic data for us to make sense and produce some really valuable frameworks that will be applied within smart city.
[00:39:50] Speaker B: So, Panita, is there any closing comments or final thoughts you'd like to leave our audience with today?
[00:39:56] Speaker A: I think from my perspective, it's the concept of digital twin and smart city that works hand in hand. And when the nations have completely understood the concept of intertwining both digital twin spatial services and smart cities, along with making use of ethical best practices in favor of the residents and the citizens, it would be a better place for us to live.
This is KBCast, the voice of cyber.
[00:40:36] Speaker B: Thanks for tuning in. For more industry leading news and thought provoking articles, visit KBI Media to get access today.
[00:40:44] Speaker A: This episode is brought to you by Mercset, your smarter route to security talent. Merksec's executive search has helped enterprise organizations find the right people from around the world since 2012. Their on demand Talent Acquisition team helps startups and midsize businesses scale faster and more efficiently. Find out
[email protected]. Today.
